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Simon Greathead, Associate Professor, Global Business at Brigham Young University’s Marriott School of Business discusses his award-winning Traeger Pellet Grills case. The case addresses the complexities associated with managing an international supply chain, cross-culture negotiation, meeting the needs of various stakeholders in a supply chain, and how to respond to unethical business partner behaviour. Additionally, Simon shares insights on the three elements contained in a great case, writing cases with multiple themes, allowing students to drive case discussion, building trusted relationships, and his approach to influencing students.
Traeger Pellet Grills: Cooking up the Competition won the 2020 EFMD case competition award in the supply chain management category.
Professor Simon P. Greathead is an international business and global supply chain professor at BYU’s Marriott School of Business. Simon earned an MBA from Henley Business School at the University of Reading in the UK and a BS in Business Management from Brigham Young University in Provo, UT. Simon’s current interests focus on process optimization, ERP implementation, change management, global negotiations, international business, supply chain innovation, and the global supply chain as a strategic concern. Simon began teaching at BYU in 2008 as an international business instructor and currently teaches global supply chain, operations, negotiations, and international business courses. Simon has published in Harvard Business Review as well as Ivey Publishing and other notable journals.
Transcript
Hello, I'm Matt Quinn thanks for joining us for decision point from IV publishing at the Ivy Business School to day we sit down with Simon Greathead, associate professor global business at Brigham Young University's Marian School of business. Simon takes us through his award winning Treger Pellogris case. The case addresses the complexities associated with managing an international supply chain, cross culture, negotiation, meeting the needs of various stake holders in a supply chain and how to respond to unethical business partner behavior. Additionally, Simon shares insights on the three elements contained in a great case, writing great cases with multiple themes allowing students to drive case discussion, building trusted relationships in his approach to influencing students enjoy Simon thanks very much for joining us today, and I want to start with you. You know your case trigger pellet grills, cooking up the competition one, the two thousand and twenty Fnd case- writing competition in the supply chain category. Why did you write it and what was the genesis of this, and why do you think that the case was so well received? Well, first of all, thanks for having me on Matt, maybe I can just back into the question a little bit and answer the question. Why sort of why I write cases and what makes just a good case right before I get into the trader case, so I get. I gave some thought to this question. Hopefully this helps case writers. People would like to get into writing cases and I think really it's sort of the alignment of three stars of thought. The first is: There's a need in the market place, meaning there are organizations out there wrestling with these issues, significant issues and organizations that we all know about right. The big names, second, that that there is some one in my circle of influence who has experience in this area. Someone who I can pick their brain, someone who will really share intimate details of of an issue, and then the last thing is that there is a student interest in this company in this idea and in this area. So, as I think about case writing, it really is the alignment of these three stars. There is a market place need. There is someone whom I can well so, first of all, at the Marrit School of business, we are fortunate to have a lot of great relationships with professionals in the workplace. Many of them do come to the university and they guess lecturers companies that are interesting sort of the amazons and the bowings of the world and the Toyotas of the world and the gees and and the fords and and the spacex right. I mean very interesting to our students, and so I often ask them what are the current issues that you are wrestling with and as they come to the marriat school and as they guess lecture, I sort of just keep a mental note on who are these individuals? What companies do they work for and what issues are they wrestling with and then going back to those three stars at Lining? I try and find a guest lecture with a story that will be interesting for students. Another reason is, I realize that my students will be wrestling with very similar issues soon when they graduate the issues that the individuals wrestle within the case. My students will be wrestling with so I really often write cases to me and needing the market place and therefore a classroom need you know, just kind of going back to those three stars. That's what we see. You know what makes a really great selling case and it's not always a bout sales, but that timeliness, the news worthiness, the reckon you know recognizable company. You know those are all things that were seeing from the publisher side of it. So it's great that you're that you're kind of taking that approach as well as an author now has your approach changed since when you first started writing cases to to today is this evolved or these things that you've picked up along the way yeah yeah, another great question, Madan and I'd say: Certainly it's evolved I'd say it's primarily evolved through sort of this iterative process of of nailing, then scaling right. So so, when we talk about these three stars, they are significant right. My articulation of student interest case origin and market place need these have come over. I mean the last. What decade and a half that I've been writing cases trying to articulate what makes a great case- and these are those sort of three three stars- that a line to make a great case. So I would say how, as how have I come to that, it really has been this iteration of creating pretty good cases but having peaces missing, and I think at this point I now know what are those three elements that drive a really good case from a student perspective from a resource persepectives the case origin and the market place need yeah. That's one thing. You know you're talking about where the case idea could come from. I love that you've mentioned. You know: you've got connections through the school. You know other people that we've had as guests on the podcast talk about you know. Maybe it's a student has a connection or something that comes out of research or an alum of the school. So you know thanks for reminding us to keep our eyes open. You know in our institutions for places where these stories can come from it doesn't have to be just your idea can come from lots of different places so keeping eyes open and ears open for new ideas. You you know I'd like to dive a little bit into the case, because there's a lot of nuanced parts to this, and that's one of the reasons I like this case is you: Can you can tackle it from many different angles? You know, there's you know the managing an international supply chain, how culture and negotiation work in the context of S, supply management, but also the context of you know the part of the world that you're in you know the needs of stake holders in a supply chain. You know, did you know about all these issues being present before you started writing the case, or did they boil up? As you were working on the narrative and writing it yeah? It becomes a challenge right when you have such a rich case with so many impressive topics like like you brought up. You've got international supply chain, you for culture and negotiation. You've got strategy, you've had to respond to an ethical behavior by a by a supply partner. So the question is: Is What what direction do you go with a case because it's challenging to go all four or five directions, so I would say that there are sort of key themes and then there are sub themes and and most business, especially international business transactions and relationships tend to be multi, layed right that you've got sort of your main issue and then you've got these sub issues. So I would say the main issue is unethical behavior by a supplier, but then you lay on that these cultural nuances that students have to be aware of. I mean it's great to have a second language, but my argument is culture is a language of business and if you don't speak that the language of culture in an international setting you're going to find yourself an interust mes culture matters a lot, sometimes not at all right, but but sometimes it does matter a lot. So seventy five percent of students in the MARRIAT school speak a second language here at by U so I was well aware that, and a lot of that has to do with the sponsoring organization of by? U, which is the Church of Jesus Christ of late days saints, and we see those Mormon missionaries on the streets right with their name tags. Seventy five percent of our students speak a second language because they go on their missions abroad, so I thought these students generally like international context, and I think I think undergraduate students in general and graduate students like international context, so that was the first thing that was on my mind, as I thought about this case. The second is: What are the skills needed to conduct business effectively across national borders? These really are skills, like negotiation, conflict resolution decision theory and and these all play into what businesses are looking for. I'd also say: I knew going into the case that there was a lot there mad, but it's not until you put pen to paper that you realize just how much and how rich this could be. So the last part of your question was so direction. Do you take it? Do I focus on negotiating strategy to some degree, students want to determine what emphasis that should be and what the solution should be so I've written in such a way that the students are allowed to sort of delf down some of these rabbit holes, yeah things that are interesting to them, and and that's something that I've learned again over the years of being a teacher is that you really need to find what are the passions of the students what what's been their experience in their life? What's their perception of what they've experienced in their life and how does that relate to the case, and so I tend to really open that up to a very rich discussion for the students and then and then towards the end, bring it back to now. The key issue here is: How do you deal with a supplier who is who was being an atical yeah? I sort of open it up and then and then I bring it bring it back yeah I like how you, you know kind of say which rabbit hole. So I can imagine that, depending on the cohort the year, the makeup of the classroom, setting that how you teach it today and how you teach it six months from now can really vary, and you know how do you? How do you get comfortable with that? Is it just? You know letting go and letting the the students is it about you letting go and not directing as much in the classroom and allowing for that flow to dictate. You know I can imagine that it might be challenging for something to let go and let the case be taught in different ways. As you go yeah a couple of thoughts on that Mat, I try to take a leach at least one class, a semester myself. So I know what it's like to be a student and and what I've realized time and time again is we need to let students breathe in the classroom and when I say breathe, we need to let them think and then share, and I put a pause there for a reason that that, whether whether you're an international student has a second language, it takes a little more time. Often in your mind, okay, but to translate it from English into my home language, then I got to think about the question and respond. So I think, as a teacher I like to give students time to breathe, to think about questions and then let it just open up something. I've realized if students can also learn from students- it's not just the professor, it's not just the material. In the case, it's that students can learn from students and so number one. I try to let the students breathe, give give space for student discussion, and I do that because I take a class each semester and I realized the power of of allowing a student to have voice in the classroom. It seems to me- and it really, the word that I just wrote down here is facilitator your facilitating this. This most like breath, work in the class allowing the ideas to come up, allowing the students to stop and get comfortable with pausing and thinking and thinking about their responses. You know with that. You know happening in the classroom. Have there been any? You know, moments that stand out, for you surprises about things that students have brought up experience with with the case and maybe a particular student that has as a background. You know you mentioned different languages, Different Cultures, anything stand out to you that you went well. This was really you know. I got a book mark that experience because it was it was so powerful for you and the teaching, yeah I'd, say, there's a couple. The first happened last year where a student who I believe it was a family member, owned a business and did a lot of business in China, and essentially they were wrestling with a similar issue in in their business in their company and a and so this case was a huge sort of light bulb. Going off and and extremely helpful- and he shared this case- I believe it was his father- may have been his uncle. I don't know, mis speak there, but a close family member of course, and so, and so the material from the case really not just helped him, but the family business think carefully a methodically and strategically about what are the consequences of cutting off a supplier that supplies you with fifty percent of your grills right, and that would be the sort of second harm at that. I generally get from most students, which is, if I say to students, this supply is acting unethically. They are taking your product, putting their name on it and selling it through distribution channels back in the US they're competing with your customers in many respects, maybe on the fringe, not not completely. I think there is a difference between treger customers and and the knock off customers, but essentially they're competing and they are being unethical in their practice. What do you do and, of course the students initially say? Will you cut them off? You cut the supply off bit. You can't have that now. The problem with that is, if you were to cut that supplier off, you would also cut off your cost. Coes your ace hardwares, your your home depots. You would then cut off your own revenue stream and therefore threaten the mere existence of your own company, the very existence of your own company. So I mean this fascinating wrestle that students have initially thinking I've got the answer, but then they don't, they are very wrong and if they were to do that, they would they would sort of disemployed destroy their own company, so that tends to be the biggest ar harm at and the students stunts love that by the way they love it when they get it wrong and then they realize where they're wrong, and then they get it right and yeah. It's sort of this this, but that's business right, but business is this idea of of that. We pull levers and, and people that have gone before us have pulled these levers before us and we have the answers and- and that's that's why case studies are so powerful because they essentially say you're going to face these sisame challenges and problems and and we've pulled levers, and these are the levers that you need to be pulling so yeah, and I think you know, for a student to you know the again the goal of a case we're putting somebody a student in the seat to act as a decision maker. You know you've already mentioned before. You know part of the thing that you like about writing cases. Is it something that its relevant and it's a skill set that a student going out to be a leader should should have? And if this is a safe environment for students to test ideas to test thinking you know being in the classroom I want to. I want to ask you when I was reading it there were so many nuanced pieces about you know. If you do this, then this might happen. You know what, if I did this: what's it going to mean for Cosco, you know, there's the cultural context and I remember one line saying that the protagonist was going to you know, consider you know some of the cultural things and how he would respond and actually had somebody else. Almost you know whisper in the ear of the person running the factor. I really love that in the context of a supply chain, discussion or courser classroom. How are you weaving in a topic like ethics? Like do you have guests in talking about ethics? Do you do a primer about ethics? And you know how do we define ethics? Because you know those could be two very different topics: Supply Chain and ethics? How are you managing in the classroom? Yeah? That's a very good question and a challenging one to answer right, because here we get into multi disciplines, yeah and and my wheel house. Fortunately Ma my wheel house is international business culture, which is a course I teach I teach global negotiating. Of course, I teach and I teach intro to supply chain and operations management, so I would say the three main topics other than ethics. That's leave ethics out of that for a minute, but those three topics are my wheel house. So I felt very comfortable in this particular setting. Now, let's get back to ethics again by you is sponsored by the Church of Jesus Christ of La Today Saint. So this idea of us being moral and ethical. It isn't so much a class that we take it by. U, it's talked about in every single classroom. We talk about, and this is uncomfortable for a lot of people, but the idea that we need to demonstrate Christlight principles in our leadership in business. We need to be kind, we need to be thoughtful. We need to treat other people how they want to be treated, and so now, let's get to the cultural piece of Ethics Mat, which is the more complex one, because that's how I would interpret ethics right and moral behavior, but once we get out into the world whether we're here in the US or whether we're in China or whether we're in the UK, where I'm from people cultures, cultures represent themselves differently in business settings, and so I think, for the students. We can share these ideas around what what B, why you, business ethics, are with the caviar that when you go in the world, other people may not view ethics or a correct business behaviour the same way, and so that's a real challenge: Mat right preparing students to be sort of wise as a serpent as a snake, but yet harmless as a dove right. It's a real challenge when they haven't been actually in that context, so I mean that's a really good question that you ask, and it's got me thinking about how I should really teach the case and I think, there's an opportunity for people to teach this particular case to say think about this guy's. The way that the supplier in China viewed the world was very different than trager the world in America. Think about that. Think about that. What does that mean for you, students and really get some discussion flowing around that idea, that people in the world view ethics different than we do and and that's a reality and that's something we've got to be aware of, and you know getting comfortable with ambiguity and that you know you know what one culture region might see that as ethical, whereas another might see it as not ethical and for a student, maybe that's! The lesson is that you know there is gray area. How do you wrestle with that internally? How do you work within that to communicate and run your run, Your Business? It's just ffascinating like again the case is not very long. If I recall it's about seven pages in in content, not very long, but that the way the levers that you can pull as a facilitator in the classroom are vast, I e, or somebody picking this up- that maybe doesn't have your teaching background, or you know the experiences that you've had. You know any tips, anything that they should be keeping in mind or looking out for in the case as they look to pick it up and bring it to their classroom. They've been hooked by this by you know your dialogue here today and I want to want to try it out. You know what should they be looking out for yeah yeah, I mean good good point mad. I think this case is. It is quite a complex case, but I think that's part of the the fun is saying: okay, there's lots of issues here. What what? What do? I want to focus on right? What do I want to teach my students, and so I would say if you want to teach them about supply chain strategy, then you could take the case that direction right if you want to take it. If you want to simply look at culture right, how some some businesses in the in different parts of the World Act based on on their sort of Cultural Lens, I think that's! That's just fine too! If you want to take it from an ethics angle, you can take this from an ethics angle. I think the teaching note generally does lead you down that ethics road right and how to manage how to manage that that question around. What do you do when a supplier takes your intellectual property, starts producing the product behind your back and so forth? But, but I would say this this case: it is rich enough for you to take it whatever direction you really want. I think you do need some resolution, though I think the students do need some resolution, so there is a snipper at the Ende of the teaching. Note that says this is what happened right. This is what happened at the end of the case, so yeah. I think, if you're relatively new to case teaching, this is great for culture, negotiating supply, chain, strategy and ethics. I would say those would be the four categories you could run with. I really like that. You mentioned that inclusion of what did happen and in I think, it's a great tip for those who are writing cases and teaching notes. You know the inclusion of that does feel like a bit of a relief now we know what happened so I really like that. You mentioned and a remind folks to include that in their teaching note- and you know diving off of that- the teaching note conversation when you're writing a teaching. Not You mentioned that you've been over a decade. Writing cases now other things that you've evolved to include dues. Do not you know from your experience of writing teaching notes, specifically any any other wisdom you can impart on the to the listener or for writing teaching notes. Yeah Yeah. I think it's interesting because you don't want to be too prescriptive. W H with the teaching note at the same time, teaching notes should be should be helpful, so so, for instance, in my teaching note, I tend to have a debt. Definitely the two elements that are needed number one is: how typically, should I approach this case with the students? Is it a? Is it a sixty minute discussion, or is it a to class period discussion? How long it will take one of the questions that the students should answer before they come to class. What it may be, some questions you want to discuss in the class, so a basic prescriptive framework on how long it will take and the questions the preparation questions is great and then, of course you do want. This is what happened at the the end of the case right. This is this is what the CEO or the COO did and then give them sort of the next year this. This is what occurred over the next year. I think it's absolutely fascinating. I take my head off to Traga that Mark Cosie Col was able to navigate this. The way that he did, he was able to get to new factories started in south China and they were able to keep all of their supplies happy enough for product on the boat during the summer to keep sales healthy and, as we know, I think you may know, trager just just went public and so they're doing extremely well as a company and- and I think this case is as evidence of some great leadership, yeah and it'll be really interesting to see how the company continues to evolve. You know from what you know I've heard about it, I'm familiar with it it's on my wish list, but it will be really interesting to see how they continue to continue to evolve now, for those that haven't had a chance to to read the case. Yet I encourage you go on the website register with US download an inspection coffee, because the narrative is fantastic. What kind of access did you have to o the company? How open were they? This is obviously a very challenging situation. You know how candid were they with you as a writer and any other challenges pop up, as you were putting the case together. So I sit on on an international trade board here in the State of Utah and on that board sat the president of Tregar, and so I got to know no him and then, of course, more closely. The CO O as I created the relationship within the organization because I'm sort of from a supple international business supply came background and so mark Osib, and I became good friends from that trade group that we're both part of and then I sort of got a little bit involved. He he said, how can I help be? Why you mark a Perdu Grad is not a B Y? U Grad! So again! This he's not a B, why you're alone, but but a friend to be why you so I asked if mark could sit on the supply chain board at the Marriot School and so mark sat on the board and we got talking and- and he told me about what was going on with the company- and I asked him I said: Would you be willing to write a case with me on this and he said Yeah so so to your point earlier mat you sort of the sphere of influence right students, Grad students, alum trade groups. You really extend this sphere of influence and then you just keep listening right. You listen for good stories. I suppose, if I would an say what makes a good case well, a good story makes a good case so that that would be. That would sort of be a step. One is this idea that that mark and I had this intimate relationship. He sat on the board here at by U and and so I picked his brain and he was just wonderful to work with the challenge. Is the cases aren't aren't written in a linear fashion? Men, meaning oftentimes they're, still unraveling in the background when we started writing the case, they were in the midst of these negotiations with this supply, and so and so that's one of the challenges. Matt often when you write a case that is so relevant right is relevant to today, then then, it's not linear, it's unraveling, so you've sort of got a right and then you've got to go back and say. Oh, there are a few extra things that I need to put in the case in order for the future context, to make better sense. So I would say that was one of the biggest challenges was was having to just keep rewriting pieces in order to make sure that t t e, the narrative, the pre narrative, made sense with some of the decisions that were were made moving forward. So but otherwise I mean when you've, when you're working with good people, things tend to work out and mark and Jonathan Richard who also helped write the case that they're both guys that ride loosen the saddle similar to me. They realize that the case will never be perfect. It's an iterative process, and so you got to be patient with each other, because you've all got other demands right, I'm a full time. Professor marks mark the time was a full time coo, and so you be patient with each other, it's iterative and, and eventually hopefully you have a good good case. Yeah, there's such a great for those that are thinking about writing a case. That's a great reminder: It's you know the the need for patients, whether it be with the partners that you're working with on it with the the narrative itself, allowing it to almost reveal itself and not push too hard, and I just you know, allow the case in some ways to just reveal itself. I love that I love that sense. Yeah. You know one thing that was through what you just mentioned about the relationship that you had with the company in the individuals is that you know this case comes out of a very trusting relationship. They're going to show be candid with you, because they've gotten to know you and the institution and trust that what's going to come out at the other end of the case, is something that they're going to be able to be proud of as well. So you know taking the time to develop those relationships sounds to me like. It was very a huge point in being able to write this case so Kudos to you and because this is a great narrative like I said, there's a lot of different ways that then you can go about it as a teacher in the classroom. You know, as we look to wrap up today and again, thank you very much for for the time, and so many tidbits from the three stars to the facilitating in the classroom that the cultural context and allowing you know, students to direct the conversation in the classroom to what you just said around you know, building a trusting relationship with your case partners. Is there anything else you wanted to leave particularly case writers, with, as they're looking to embark may be on their on their first case boy, that that that's a question that could fill t a couple of hours in a Oh self mat? But but before I answer, thank you so much mad and a big. Thank you to ivy too. I am very grateful for ivy been a fantastic partner, and really I wrote this down here that specifically ivy has done a wonderful job at helping moderate, immediate some of my writing, meaning that sometimes, I think, is a case writer. You do get very involved and- and I vous ad a great job at making sure that what what I'm saying is really what I want to be said and so big thank you to ivy for refining. I think refining me as a case writer and helping me put a good product out there. So I think the most important part most important thing for a case writer to remember is who is? Is My customer and the customer really? Is the student at the end of the day in the classroom and thinking about the question not so much? What points do I need to get through as a professor? But what do the students need to understand and learn and experience and feel and breathe and voice in the classroom? It's successful when students at the end of the day are able to come back to you. As a professor and say I learnt this, I did this not you're a great professor ofers, a great head. No, this is what I've learned. This is what I've got out of the class and when students begin articulating, really key learning right. The points that you've wanted all along, but they voice it in their own voice, not in your voice. As the professor, that's that's when I think that we've sort of aligned the stars from a teaching and a learning perspective. So as a new case writer, my advice will be think about your customer. Think about your student think about how their mind thinks how they perceive the world and how they're going to interpret your case. Thanks Mat Simon, I think that's a great place for us to end up today. Thank you again for your time. This will be a podcast that I revisit and send along to my team and say check out these points, because this is why we do what we do at publishing and then it's so great to connect with you. I look forward to seeing your next case. I won't I won't to ask what's in the hopper yet, because I want to leave that as a surprise when it comes in, but thanks again for the time today, thanks so much Matin calame really appreciate you and your support. Thank you. If you enjoy today's episode, subscribe to Decision Point on spotify or wherever you listen to be sure, to check out the show, notes or links to cases, resources and more have any feedback, send us an email at cases at IV, dot, CA