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Frank Li, an associate professor of finance at Ivey Business School, walks us through his case, 5 Fortune: One of Many Chinese Restaurants. The case highlights just how crucial it is that we bring real world scenarios and narratives into the classroom – especially for a finance case. Li explains how diverse protagonists, added cultural context, and multimedia have been key to crafting a top-notch classroom experience.
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Hi, I'm Matt Quinn. Thanks for joining us again for decision point from I be publishing at the Ivy Business School. Today I'm thrilled to be talking with Frank Lee and associate professor of finance at I be. In our conversation, professor Lee walks us through his case by fortune, one of many Chinese restaurants, to highlight just how crucial it is that we bring in real world scenarios and narratives into the classroom, especially for a finance case. He explains how diverse protagonists, added cultural context and multi media have been key to crafting a top knocked classroom experience. Enjoy. Frank, thank you so much for joining us today and taking the time to chat about the case and your experience as an author. So let's dive right into the case. Could you briefly take us through the dilemma of the protagonist, one bay lead, and the you know, the different issues that this person is bathing sure, Versta, thank you for all your mining me. But this case, the dilemma. Well, one bay is a classic capital Structure Decision whether to raise that equity. In this sense it's the typical finance case. I teach finance by the way, with times of code numbers and very technical analyzes like a financial statement and not as racial analysis, scenario, sensitivity analysis, exept, etcetera. But I put everything in a unique emotional setting. We can talk about La Se. Yeah, so let's go there right now. So the protagonist, Lee, is somewhat of a serial entrepreneur right. Yes, one way, she was first generation immigrant from China and remote country, was a very different, totally different culture. She's been female, she's quite disadvantage in terms of language skills, social network experience and the local support etc. I'll get the hands. She is an idealist. She wants to realize her dream in Canada to build this unique restaurant which has a style of her hometown in time, and I love the fact that there's so much nuance in this case and there are a lot of different challenges and hurdles and situations that the protagonist has to face, and I think that really must really resonate with your students that that context of leaving home to start a new life, whether it be a new life in a new country or community. How of their students responded to the case, because I know you teach this, as you mentioned in in a couple of different programs that I be yeah, so almost. So, basically, almost all of us are immigrants. Right. Many may not be the first generation, but our parents, of fore fathers, they faced the same situation that the one bay faced, carrying the same characteristics, like a hard working, smart and tough waiting to take a risk. But on your hand, they are they are scared, fragile, insensitive. So I always ask my student to put yourself into one based shoes and to understand a difficulty their family or fore father's face. Usually, after every time I thought, several students will found me and told me their family story, sometimes with tears. Right. So I hope to write a story that can relate not only to the writer, of of course you can tell from my excellent time first generation immigrant from China, and also relate to the students. So they can so we can write with passion, students can learn with passion. I just love that sentiment. Is something that's come through it in a couple of the conversations in our podcast as we've been recording. I want to dive a little bit deeper into the student experience and you've expressed at many times and you've been a great partner for us at publishing the importance of ensuring that your students feel represented in the cases that you choose to cover in the classroom. So why do you think it's important for those teaching cases to that might be topically distant from Edi Issues? Why is that important to you? What? What is your ultimate goal for these students? And you know how are you doing that and how are you activating that and how are you making sure that a diverse set of protagonists are hitting the the desk of the student? That's super important. Essentially, business is social science, right. We study business cases to solve social problems, to make it a better word. Right. So in the of course, in a narrow sence, we want to put theory and the learning points in the specific social setting to provide more insights to students. But in a broader sence it is philosophy. Write. The degree I have is Ph d, which is doctor of philosophy, and the highest a business degree is PhD. So all cases should have promote thinking of a big picture but compassionate feeding of all mankind. In this sense. And so for when you're thinking about writing a case and you're in the midst of writing cases, what advice do you have to offer for other case writers to get themselves in the mindset of thinking beyond the theory or the textbook? What has helped you as you've written this case and others? HMM, we were trained as an economist. Using economic we call it agent, emotionless agent, but using case we have the advantage to put personality, put to some uniqueness about the personality and the different situations in the case. So That's how edi so con EI issues play a role in finance especially. I love that you mentioned bringing that, the social issue into to a finance because we were often asked how do cases, how do you use a case and finance or accounting or these non traditional case based methods? I love the fact that you're weaving in the social issues with with some finance side of a two. So it can be done. Let's talk a little bit about how you teach this specific case that you mentioned before that you've had students come up to. That must be so powerful that have students coming up to you after the class with their thoughts and feelings, as you mentioned here. Sometimes, how do you bring this case to life in the classroom? So let me tell you the my structure of teaching this case. So I cover this case in two classes. So for the first class we do base case analysis, so with intensive quantitative analysis. Of course we need to qualitatively assess one base risk of preference and the capacity. So finance is all about risk, but different people value risk a different to so we need to put this in a specific setting, and I think the setting I set up is a female immigrants with different culture trying to take a risk. So for the second class, so for the first class we do the base case analysis. For the Second Class I want my students to twist the base case two propose their financing plan. So I have I divide my class into three sections. One will play the role of that holders potential that holds, one will play the role of potential shareholders and one will play the role of one bay. So they will argue about this and the trying to make this deal better for both parties. So after class many interested students will would typically go to the restaurant and ask one way about these decisions. That's the advantage to have a local and local case with real character and with real decisions. Right. So, by the way, the case every word, every number is real, so there are no disguise so I hope that the students can link that to their own life on this youmaking. I love that because it is real, it happened to somebody and it is an undoubtedly going to happen and be relevant for the students. I also wanted to come back to something you mentioned of splitting the case over a couple of different classes. That's such a great idea. I think sometimes we get down into this rule that it has to only be covered in one class. There's nothing wrong with carrying a learning and shifting it slightly into other classes, which is great. Now I want to ask you a question. Before we started recording today, we were talking about your experience of moving the classroom online. What have been some of the things that you've realized in the process of going online with the MSC and the the other programs? What have you learned? How have you had to shift your approach as a as a case teacher? A Lot, a lot. It's a totally different teaching I I use half half, the half synchronous half asynchronous, but I use different testing skills. So, okay, technologies like online quiz, online group team working we have role play right. So I ask both student presentations as groups right. One group I will present the proposal bought that holds. The other will propose as Jill Hoods. The audience will played at all off one day to do to judge, to Negocean. So I think it works well. At least that all all the other tools I want available zoom. That's really cool and I think what I hear from that is really know the tools that are at your disposal and just shift, shift around and use those appropriately. Now the last question I have for you, which is something that we're being asked a lot of I be publishing, is, you know, given that so many classes are online now, how should we modify the way we write a case or the way we write a teaching note? Given your experience with both online in class and writing, you know, do you have any tips for somebody who's considering writing a case and things that they should think about with respect to an online environment? How do we write appropriately for that? Of course, multimedia, which is to pay important, cus up when we have a mecca to our zoom class. Everybody is so tired, so bored, so but UMPLEFULL fifttion, I find some videos about this restaurant, right to showing the inside outside. It's a unique, unique restaurant with a very special Chinese style, that creation. So it's better to see it. I guess right now that the Restaurroong is not allowed to serve the serve all with students inside, but they can at least to see inside and see one bay. One Bay can talk about our decision at that time and her business right all. Also, by the way, I hope to write in local case to help local business right. I hope if I fortune can survive in this pandemic. Absolutely, they're going to be a lot of businesses and leaders looking for cases to get to know to get through some of the challenges that we're facing. And I want to come back to one thing. I think there's a theme that I'm hearing from you, and what I really appreciate about you is that, you know, I also heard about using video and multi media in a finance setting, which, again, we don't have to hear about. We think finance is going to be, you know, like balance sheets and and a lot of numbers. I love the idea that you're pushing multi media into this area, that maybe it wouldn't have been traditionally used, and so thanks for bringing that up, but we definitely would encourage authors to think about that, include links in the teaching notes and suggestions for how you can integrate multi media into that. Frank, this has been an awesome conversation and for those that want to learn more about you and the work that you're doing, your research, the cases that you've written, do you are you on Linkedin? Where can people find you on the Ivy website as well? Yeah, I have a official website, web page IV. I also have a very active linked thing page. Almost all my students linked it to me. I can see they after graduation and should I post a something about fifortune and the many students are left very positive comments, very touching stories, those kind of things. Yeah, and so I would encourage anybody that's listening to the podcast that you know pick up the case, try it out and give us some feedback. Connect with frank on Linkedin, connect with us through IV publishing and let us know how you use the case. What kind of feedback would you get in the classroom? So thanks again, frank, for joining us today. We really appreciate it and I want to thank you on behalf of the team. You've always been one to step up and offer great new ideas and suggestions, and also you're willing to partner with us and a lot of things. So thank you again. No problem. Thank you, Matt. Thank you. If you enjoyed today's episode, subscribe to Decision Point on spotify or wherever you listen to be sure to check out the show notes for links to cases, resources and more. have any feedback, send us an email at cases at IV dot c. a